LI Blog 2: What similarities & differences exist between the history of irish americans & black americans? How has their history or narrative shaped their past and future?

BLog dialogue

Prior to the trip Level I participants will read the entire text, and read both websites. While doing so they should focus on the role of the Irish in shaping American History, with a specific focus on their fight for Civil Rights both in America and abroad.They will write, and post four response essays related to the chapters referenced within each blog (Blog 1, The Irish Story: Blog 2, Similarities & Differences, Blog 3, Friends & Enemies: ; Blog 4, Past & Present. Participant essays should reflect their beliefs insights, ideas, teaching strategies etc. related to the ideas presented by Egan's novel as well as the internet articles linked below In addition participants will respond to a minimum of five of their peer's posts within the blog.

Civil Rights Reading Assignments

LI Blog 2: What similarities & differences exist between the history of irish americans & black americans? How has their history or narrative shaped their past and future?

1/31/2017

37 Comments

Blog 2: Similarities & Differences

Please review the instructions on the right, when finished write a reflective essay related to the text that presents your ideas, insights, beliefs, and teaching strategies related to the text. The template on the right is provided to assist you in writing your essay; however, bloggers are not required to use the template.

37 Comments

Tasha Salisbury

4/6/2017 05:18:29 pm

BLOG 2: WHAT SIMILARITIES & DIFFERENCES EXIST BETWEEN THE HISTORY OF IRISH AMERICANS & BLACK AMERICANS? HOW HAS THEIR HISTORY OR NARRATIVE SHAPED THEIR PAST AND FUTURE?
President Theodore Roosevelt once said that we should do away with hyphenated Americans and just be Americans. What he meant was that once you are in America, you should adopt American culture and just be American, regardless of where you came from (for more on this, reference Vincent Cannato’s American Passage). Of course, this is easier said than done, especially considering that the very definition of what it means to be American varies from person to person. The history of black Americans and of Irish Americans show the difficulties of not being a hyphenated American. While black Americans and Irish Americans faced discrimination, the history of oppression against each group shares some similarities but also stark differences. While similarly portrayed and treated as inferiors to white Anglo-Saxon Protestants, the Irish and black Americans differed in the severity of their treatment by the groups in power, and their assimilation into American society. These differences in their treatment and assimilation into American society has shaped their future to ones of success and ones of sorrow, and continues to shape the way in which their descendants interact with American society today.
Perhaps the most striking similarity between the Irish and black American experience is that they were both experienced persecution in America due to a caste system, in which, they found themselves on the bottom most rungs. Though not generally slaves in the United States, “the Irish sent to the West Indies were simply human property” (Egan, 88). This link to slavery meant that both groups recognized the danger in a highly stratified class system. Among black Americans, this meant an absolute abhorrence of slavery, and among Irish Americans, it meant a great belief in protecting your place in society. While, arguably, neither agreed with the free market system promoted to extremes that had caused the famine in Ireland, and perpetuated slavery in the south, both groups saw the free market as a chance to advance their social status, even if it was in limited ways.
Being the bottom on a stratified class system was not the greatest shared experience of Irish and black Americans. The degradation of both black and Irish Americans as subhuman lead to both groups experiencing incredibly similar problems. The Irish, as portrayed by the British, were “mongrels, incapable of caring for themselves, a nation of drunks” (Egan, 26). Similarly, black Americans were considered lacking the ability to take care of themselves, which is why pro-slavery officials like Jefferson Davis, would argue that slavery was a boon for the enslaved. Experiencing such blanket persecution would contribute to the idea that ethnicity or race could decide the character of each individual. In fact, both groups even experienced the satire of the same cartoonist, Thomas Nast, who would draw Irish immigrants in the same simian style that would be used to portray black Americans (Egan, 255). Fostering these stereotypes in such a public way meant that both groups felt that they had to prove that they were good enough to be American.
While both groups suffered from the powerful social stratification in the United States as well as subhuman and simian portrayals, the main difference would be in the severity of their treatment. The Irish were, undoubtedly, persecuted in America, as evidenced by the fact that Nast would feel comfortable publishing such degrading political cartoons of them. However, the Irish were not enslaved in the vast numbers that black Americans were, and they were eligible for citizenship after meeting the naturalization laws. While their ethnicity (here used to describe their country of origin) and their religion were not desirable, their race was still white, an important factor. Black Americans would not gain the opportunity for full citizenship, which would include the right to vote, until the passage of the 14th amendment. This opportunity for citizenship marks an enormous difference between the two. While the Irish would be, as Roosevelt called them, “hyphenated Americans,” they would enjoy the benefits of American citizenship, where black Americans would not.
The right to be a citizen would hugely shape both the past and the future for both groups. Citizenship is the first step to assimilating into American culture in a way that is considered acceptable to those in power. This assimilation would even lead to, as Thomas Maegher would note, the Irish looked less Irish and more American (Egan, 132). This chance at political involvement meant that they could change their circumstances. This would hugely shape the future of Irish Americans who would become deeply involved in American politics, clearly seen by the power later wielded by Tamma

Tasha Salisbury

4/19/2017 09:17:51 pm

Not sure why the rest didn't post. Here's the rest of it:

This chance at political involvement meant that they could change their circumstances. This would hugely shape the future of Irish Americans who would become deeply involved in American politics, clearly seen by the power later wielded by Tammany Hall. The assimilation of the Irish also meant that they could express pride in their nationality – in being Irish American. The Irish culture would blend with American culture in a way that would lead the two to becoming strangely inseparable as a trademark in America. However, their pride in the blending of old and new nations would also lead to a modern day acceptance of Irish national pride in the United States.
For black Americans, assimilation would not be so easy. First, they would not gain citizenship. Second, to stop looking less like black Americans was physically impossible and would have required a cultural overhaul that would have completely disregarded hundreds of years of enslavement. At best, black Americans could expect to be ameliorated to their low place in society. When citizenship did come, black Americans sought to participate but were blocked because it was easy to tell their race, and they had no big political machine like Tammany Hall to protect them from the rancorous rumblings of Southern White Supremacist groups who blocked them from voting, and whose power was not really curbed until the passage of the National Voting Act of 1965. This meant that the future of black Americans was fraught with exclusion from politics. Along with being denied true assimilation and absorption into American culture, black Americans did not have the same ethnic unity of the Irish. This meant that an expression of unity became based on experience rather than national background. The experience of black Americans was founded on slavery, which was race based, and thus became their unifying point. However, an expression of unity through race, including such movements as Black Lives Matter, has historically caused discomfort and even suspicion among people in the United States.
While their past shares some key factors, including being victimized by the social structure of the United States and the degradation to inferiors, Irish Americans and black Americans also had vastly different experiences that shaped their futures. Through their differences in assimilating into American society, largely based on their ability to be politically involved, and their expressions of unity, Irish Americans and black Americans underwent vastly different pasts that created immensely different futures.

Julie Smith

5/15/2017 12:51:21 pm

I like your points, Tasha. It is so easy to tell someone to just assimilate, but it is much easier said than done. Besides, is it really right? I think there is power in diversity and too much homogeneity can actually lead to weakness. We need to have more opinions than our own - it makes us see things in a new way. We need to have people disagree with us - it promotes understanding and civility (or, at least it should) We need to find new ways of doing things by seeing and trying the ways other people have done things - otherwise life is stale and we are stagnant. It may not always be easy to get along, but we need to embrace and protect our differences. I think the fact that America at least on some level, did try to do this is what has helped to build a country unlike any other. Even though people, such as black American and Irish Americans have been maligned in the past, today their cultures are still celebrated. These groups keep their beliefs and culture alive, in spite of or maybe because of the repression they experienced. For example, although there is much racial prejudice directed toward black Americans today, there is a great deal of emulation of their culture, especially in the music and fashion industries. It is "cool" to "be black." As another example of this, St. Patrick's Day is becoming a larger celebration yearly. Rather than vilifying the Irish as "dirty drunkards" as was once done, now everyone simply joins them because value has been seen in their culture (or maybe just the alcohol?) At any rate, these two groups, one hundred years later, are not perhaps completely accepted, but there are facets of their culture that are truly celebrated by mainstream America.

Julie Smith link

4/8/2017 06:12:55 pm

The history of the Irish Americans and black Americans is a shared history of oppression. Both the Irish and blacks in the nineteenth century were looked on as the lowest denominator of a form of humanity, not even fully considered to be human by some. Both groups experienced a life of oppression, although on different levels in different places, and both were disrespected by the majority around them. Yet, their shared similarities in social station is what ultimately forced them apart and exemplifies the current civil rights struggle that still exists today.

In describing the human toll of the Great Famine, Egan quotes William Bennet, a Quaker who toured County Mayo in 1847, and described conditions thusly, “Stretched in one dark corner, scarcely visible from the smoke and rages that covered them, were three children huddled together, lying because they were too weak to rise, pale and ghastly; their little limbs . . . perfectly emaciated, eyes sunk, voice gone, and evidently in the last stage of actual starvation” (53). Parallel to this description of Irish misery, Dr. Charles Foy, a history professor at Eastern Illinois University, citing a study at Howard University, states the following, “The hostility of northern slave masters to slave children is evidenced in the lack of care many masters provided their slave children. Archaeological analysis of the skeletons of children buried in New York’s African Burial Ground found that “fifty percent of [the] dead children show evidence of metabolic disease, the vast majority of which indicates anemia (most likely resulted from malnutrition and diseases).” (http://thekeep.eiu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1006&context=history_fac). Children, then considered the least important part of nearly every society, were not being cared for in either Irish or slave societies. In both the Great Famine and within the American slave system, the reasons for starvation and malnutrition were the same: the uncaring attitude of those who held power. It is likely that the parents of both groups wanted their children to be fed and cared for, yet were powerless to do so. The rulers of the Irish, the English, sent food from Ireland elsewhere. Meagher stated, “England had bound this island hand and foot . . . she robs the island of its food for it has not the power to guard it (53). Egan then states that Meagher quoted the tonnage of food that had sailed out of Ireland, despite the pronounced need for it among the Irish themselves. In early slave holding societies in America, slave children were not valued, but rather considered to be burdens. Foy states, “Slave masters wanted to avoid the cost and expense of clothing and feeding slave children. When unwanted slave children were born, some slave masters sought to “give [them] away.” Looking at how a society treats its children, or its’ weakest members, shows the value given them. Neither the Irish nor black American slaves were respected by the general American public.

Upon arrival in the United States, the migrant Irish, escaping the famine of 1847 to 1855, were immediately placed on a low rung of the social structure. They were laughed at in newspapers, where they were drawn as “filthy apes lacking only a tail, whiskers coated in suds, the women more debauched than the men” (134.) The portrayal of people as apes is a familiar depiction for people of African descent, even today. In addition, the Know-Nothing political party suggested that Irish children should be removed from their foul homes on the East Coast and assigned to non-Catholic families in the Midwest (163). Although this did not happen, the fact that it was considered a good idea by many shows that many believed that Irish families being broken up, potentially for “their own good,” was a step in the right direction. As is commonly known, slave families were often broken up, and many slave holders believed it was better that families not be together as they would work better separately. In New York City, the two groups shared even more similarities. Egan describes the surprise of Charles Dickens upon his visit to New York, who was “stunned to see the mix of races, Irish and blacks drinking together, dancing in the saloons, a born-in-America toe-and-heel tap that was a blend of Gaelic jig and West African step dance. In darkened corners, mixed-race couples kissed and groped” (132). Both groups shared the disapproval and mistreatment of native born whites in America that did not feel that either group was worthy of respect or to be treated with civility, as they were of a lower class or station. Although the Irish had a slight advantage due to a skin tone that matched those of their oppressors, they were not treated much better on either side of the Atlantic. In fact, Fredrick Douglass noted that, “the Irish were the blacks of Great Britain, barely a step above t

Cindy Ness

4/18/2017 10:13:43 am

Julie,
I loved the comparative essay you wrote on black and Irish Americans. I note the last bit seems to be cut off.... If you have the original will you go in and post the second bit? Your essay left me hanging.

In particular I note your use of themes within each paragraph to guide the dialogue. I loved the quotes you selected from both the readings and outside sources. Kuddos on a job well done!

Julie Smith

4/18/2017 10:57:11 am

Not sure why that didn't all copy. Here is the rest.

“the Irish were the blacks of Great Britain, barely a step above the field hands in Alabama” (147).

Ironically, as forces leading to Civil War began to heat up, the Irish had to confront the reality of what a land of freed slaves would mean for them economically. Both groups shared the lowest spot in society, and consequently the potential for the worst jobs, which were unfortunately the only ones that anyone would hire them for due to discrimination. Irish soldiers, recruited by Thomas Meagher, at first fought in gratitude to the nation that took them in, albeit with a lack of civil rights, during their time of distress as they fled the famine. Many believed that this fight on American soil was actually a protest against England and an attempt to fight for Ireland. Once the proclamation was announced, however; there was no hiding the fact that this war was for freeing those held in bondage. The Irish recognized that the freedom of blacks would mean a struggle for the Irish themselves, due to increased competition for employment.

Although the Irish have assimilated better, due to mixing with the white population in America and cannot be as readily identified as a group as can African-Americans, discrimination against them continued for nearly a century afterward. During the presidential campaign of John F. Kennedy in 1960, the issue of his being of Irish descent and of the Catholic faith was a major concern for many Americans. Fifty years later, with the election of Barrack Obama, many in America were upset about his election, with some stating that they believed he was a Muslim, and, although it wasn’t spoken loudly, the fact that he was black was a concern to many. Clearly, America does not overcome prejudice easily. While the Irish have by and large assimilated well by now (due to the advantages of skin color), their place in the hierarchy of society has simply been taken by a new generation of immigrants (Asians, Latins, and those of Middle East descent). This competition for economic survival is still occurring within America today as well, but with different players. Just as was the case one hundred and fifty years ago, immigrants are still forced to start at the bottom of the economic ladder in America, even if they have education and advanced degrees. Immigrants are still not accepted by much of mainstream America, (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alev-dudek/foreign-born-citizens-in-america_b_8030968.html) as shown by support for recent presidential immigration policy. Immigrants and blacks still compete for the worst jobs. Both groups are still treated with subtle prejudice, despite laws requiring equitable treatment. African Americans, once like the Irish(Egan, 163), make up a large part of the prison population especially when considering the percentage of the population that is African American in society as a whole,( https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_race.jsp) are not considered for employment positions or promotions as readily as their white counter parts, ( http://www.npr.org/2015/10/01/444912628/despite-improving-job-market-blacks-still-face-tougher-prospects) even if they are more qualified, and are less likely to be employed in America. http://www.npr.org/2016/02/05/465748249/african-americans-face-uncertain-reality-despite-low-unemployment-rate).. The years have passed, but America still plays favorites.

Gina Dansie

4/20/2017 02:36:13 pm

Irish Americans and Black Americans share a common history of being considered sub human in American history. Both groups were considered sub human and lived with constant reminders of that fact. Some of those daily reminders included violence, segregation, news articles, poor working conditions and poor living conditions. Both groups would band together to give a sense of community and a place of belonging, something that was missing in their public lives. Though both groups wanted to assimilate, social norms and customs kept that from happening. Mixed marriages involving either group were discouraged, sometimes illegal. Egan gives detail of how Elizabeth was disowned due to her marriage to an Irishman, Thomas Meagher. The legality of inter-racial marriages was not confirmed nationally until the Supreme Court case Loving vs Virginia in 1967.
While there are similarities between the two groups, there are differences as well. One key difference is about the narrative of their history in the United States. While Egan describes the harsh conditions that the Irish were subjected to here in the United States. The blog post “Irish, the Forgotten White Slaves” gives an additional perspective of their servitude here in the U.S. The Snopes article however, sheds a different perspective and discredits some of the claims in the other narratives. Though there are differences in opinion about the Irish, there can be little disagreement of the treatment of the Black Americans during slavery. Their narrative has been recorded through various accounts and is seen as a true and accurate depiction of actual events. The lack of a consensus of the Irish narrative discredits their significance in U.S. history. One must ask why there is not a consensus about the Irish narrative. Could it be related to their oppression by the English, the founding members of the U.S.?
Having a shared, common, and challenging history can bind a nationality or ethnic group together. We see this today as Irish Americans still have strong sense of identity as a group. There is a sense of pride of overcoming past adversity, celebrating accomplishments and an overall sense of belonging due to their history. They are continually celebrating and cherishing their shared heritage.
While Black Americans also have a shared history, theirs is more fragmented and lacks a common nationality. Current events show this group continually fighting for equality and rights under the law that they perceive are lacking. The argument can be made that because Black Americans are easier to identify than Irish Americans, it has made it harder to assimilate into a largely, white population- especially when most members of those who govern are non-minorities.

Ashlee Karpowitz

5/9/2017 05:48:40 pm

I think you're spot on to say those who have a shared, challenging history, often band together. We see that in many groups today; a perfect example is Native Americans -especially the Navajo. I like that you said the Irish seem to have a strong sense of identity, while African Americans have a similar bond, but more fragmented. What an astute observation. I think that fragment comes from their heritage and family's origin. Ireland is quite small compared to the continent of Africa, as well as all the places African slaves were sent. I think those sub-groups can cause more fractures (because they have different belief systems and traditions) which is why we see so much chaos in their fight for equality today.

Jonathan B Wrigley

5/11/2017 12:59:05 pm

It is interesting that the narrative of the Irish in the United States isn't something that most people can agree on. But that makes it an interesting topic to use in class. Teachers can engage students in a little investigation. Different sources can be used and students could practice their close readings, corroboration and contextualization of evidence. This can be an interesting activity, especially when students learn more of what the Irish did in the U.S. Their involvement in the Civil War, their treatment in New England and life in the tenements is fascinating to learn about and can give students more understanding and personal insight into a group that received little attention in American History.

Ashlee Karpowitz

4/25/2017 08:50:41 pm

There is a section in “The Immortal Irishman” that reminded me of something I just read about in “The Approaching Fury” and gives an excellent comparison between the history of the Irish and Blacks rising up against prejudiced treatment. In Nat Turner’s section in “The Approaching Fury” it talks about him having visions about rising up and leading the other black slaves through a bloody insurrection over the slave owners – which he they end up doing. They break into homes in the middle of the night and behead slave owners and their families. Something similar happens with the Irish when they are trying to rise up over England’s power. “In the countryside, peasants shot their landlords with the weapons of their masters. Stolen guns were stockpiled, pikes sharpened and stashed. As defeated and weak as the people were, the Irish were showing signs of an uprising.” (page 54). I think this is crucial in showing the fight and resolve of these people who had been treated so terribly. As violent and horrible as the uprisings were, it is powerful to see people come together to vanquish an opposing power whose dominion seems unlimited. I think Nat Turner and Thomas Meagher probably knew their small band of followers couldn’t change their fate, but I love the power of them trying and I think that’s a beautiful thing to teach our students. In all cases of civil rights, a group has to defy the odds to overcome their adversary. That power defined how their future was shaped.

One major difference I noticed came out in the two online articles we read. There was a discrepancy in the use of the phrase “indentured servants”. I think the purpose of the African Slave Trade was very different than the Irish and other Europeans who were “banished” to North America to work as “slaves”. The word slave can mean so many different things, so it’s critical that we help our students understand what they truly experienced. Black slaves had no rights and were literally treated like cattle, sold at auction. Indentured Servants had some rights and could eventually work off their “slave years”, while Black slaves were born into slavery and could never escape it. These original differences create a massive change in their futures. Some would end up free and others in slavery forever.

Jenni Klein

5/14/2017 06:04:06 pm

This comparison was one I also realized as I read this book. I loved reading them back to back and comparing the conflict and crisis between the two groups of people. We shouldn't compare or pit them against each other-- but it is important to realize they both struggled. As teachers it is crucial to be able to teach all groups of people to our students. We never know what or who our students are going to connect with.

Christopher Jones

4/28/2017 04:24:28 pm

At first glance, the Irish and African American appear to have similar histories in relation to their presence in the United States and the discrimination they encountered, however, when taking a closer look, it is clear that the differences are salient. The difference between the groups was; choice. Starting with their reasons for travel require anyone studying these two groups of people to recognize that the history of Africans and African Americans was much worse. Regardless of what some may argue, the majority of Irish came over willingly, and the African was forced to come to America. Their labor contracts throughout the 18th and 19th century were different, as one was categorized as a paid laborer with the ability to unionize, and the other was classified as a slave. Finally, participation in politics was difficult for the Irish, however, it was inconceivable for most African Americans.
From the beginning of both parties’ passage, it is clear to see why the African Americans history has been much more difficult. The Irish came to the United States willingly during the early 19th century. They were under duress, however, there were options for them when they left Ireland. Africans, on the other hand, were captured in the central and western areas of Africa, either by white traders, or rival tribes. Then they were taken to the western coast, auctioned, and transported to their master’s location. Both groups suffered greatly on the voyage, which took anywhere from 2 - 4 months, depending on the final destination. Those leaving Africa, destined for slavery, left in chains, while the Irish, who were usually hungry and restricted to the lower deck, were cramped, but still free. Upon arrival, it was already established where Africans were going to go. The Irish would face discrimination in the choices they made in regards to their future, but they still had just that; a choice. Both parties held their cultural values close, but African Americans lost most of what they valued when they were sold at a young age. Their rituals and languages were beaten out of them. Families would be split up, in order to crush any any remnants of heritage they may have held on to. The treatment of the Irish and African American were terrible, but African Americans suffered through far worse.
Forced, lifelong labor only applied to one of the groups. Africans, and African Americans had no choice in the work they did, nor was there a contractual expiration date to look forward to. Of course, there were freedmen who did live in the United States, but a majority of African Americans were slaves. The Irish were treated unfairly, and throughout history remained in the working class atmosphere, but African Americans could not even claim that much. African Americans were born into a future of slavery. There was no option to choose between this difficult job, or that difficult job, or which one paid more. Along with the absence of choice came came physical abuse, which in many cases, let to death. Dying while working a dangerous job, is different than dying at the hands of your “employer”. Having the opportunity to choose a difficult job outweighs being forced to do any type of labor.
Appearances in the court of law was difficult for both groups. The existence of the Know Nothings, along other groups of people who mutually hated the Irish, made it hard to get a fair decision in court. African Americans were not allowed in court. They could not participate, sue or testify against the white population. Citizenship was attainable for the Irish, allowing them to participate in politics. Thomas Meagher became a citizen of the United States once he had gained residency. It is important to note that Thomas Meagher was a convicted criminal and escaped felon, yet he still managed to gain citizenship. African Americans who were born in the United States were not granted that right until the 14th Amendment. Even with the passing of the 15th Amendment, it would not be until the Voting Rights Act of 1965 that African Americans could finally approach a voting booth without harassment.
In reference to the future of the two groups, the Irish would almost completely assimilate into American culture, and at times, finding themselves discriminating against the African American population. The Irish would even be granted holidays to celebrate amongst their protestant peers. African Americans would experience discrimination even after they were granted their freedom. Throughout U.S. history, African Americans would lead a different life than their Irish counterparts as racial discrimination carried on throughout Reconstruction, the Industrial Revolution, World War II, the Cold War, and even up until today. Both groups have had a difficult past, there is no doubt, but it is clear to see now that African Americans, from the beginning of their existence in the U.S. have had a much steeper uphill battle to fight; a battle

Lori Robinson

5/3/2017 02:39:27 pm

Your essay really hones in on incredibly specific reasons why the enslaved African American experience was worse than that of the Irish immigrant. I like how you successfully argued the ideas within your essay-- especially the comparison of the reasons for each groups' arrival in the United States-- one forced and one by choice. Your description of their voyages really made an impact on me because, although both journeys were considerably awful, that of the enslaved person was made in chains. The Middle Passage was truly a horrifying journey that was forced upon the African people.

Not only that, but your explanation of the political and citizenship disparities between the Irish and African Americans provided a foundation that leads to a deeper understanding of the continuing struggle of African Americans.

Ryan Fisher

4/28/2017 05:39:01 pm

Slavery isn't about an individual person, religion, or race. Slavery throughout history has effected or impacted a great number of groups of people.
The Irish and African Americans are two groups that have had some or significant numbers on their individual groups impacted. When you look at the origins of both versions of slavery you can see a common denominator, the discovery of the "New World". Once it was discovered that the new world was abundant in soil that was ideal for cash crops, such as sugar, tobacco, and cotton, there became a great pull for laborers. These laborers were drawn from the ranks of the poor and needy of Ireland who were viewed as "lesser people" and also from the different tribes who made Africa their home.
These groups were subjected to inhumane conditions on the ships that made their way across the Atlantic Ocean. Lack of food, lack of water, overcrowding, and other substandard conditions led to the deaths of so many individuals it is hard to fathom.
The differences that were experienced by these two groups helps to explain the way that they are viewed in a historical perspective. African Americans came to this country in chains and had very little options to prevent or change this outcome. The very institution of African American slavery was designed to make the individual seem less human. From the slave sale where they were treated as livestock (though one valued a good horse more than a slave) to the lack of recognition of marriages and family relationships to the forced illiteracy of slaves.
Irish slavers or Irish indentured servants however you choose to classify them had a better, not a great, experience in the new world. After a given time period they earned their freedom. Most had the ability to choose to get on a boat and come west. They had a great deal of discrimination that was thrown their way, but they never were all the way at the bottom of society. Even on the cusp of the Civil War they were sought out as an ally against the liberation of African American's because of the economic hard ships they would have encountered.

Ashlee Karpowitz

5/9/2017 09:01:34 pm

I totally agree. Very well said. I love that you point out that these two groups and the origins of their slavery both come from the discovery of the New World. I hadn't thought about that. The more I read these blog posts the more I think about Native Americans. The impact of the discovery of the "New World" was detrimental to them. I think we often boast about the discovery of the New World, when in reality there were some terrible things that happened to the indigenous people that our students need to know about.

Jonathan Wrigley

4/29/2017 08:59:25 am

Racism, xenophobia and unfair discrimination have spawned slavery, when human beings have bought and sold and owned and branded fellow human beings as if they were so many beasts of burden. This statement by Desmond Tutu is as true of African Americans as it was of Irish Americans in the 1700s and 1800s. There are many similarities between the two groups if we look closely as well as some significant differences.
Both groups were forced to leave their homeland against their will. The British took Irish undesirables, which was a very loose term and could be applied to most people, and sent them to their colonies as slaves. Thomas Meagher talked about the great number of Irish who were sent to Barbados and islands as slaves to work on plantations. Others were sent to Australia as slaves.
African slaves were also sent to these Island plantations and were looked upon as an inferior race just like the Irish. Both groups were forced into ships that were whole unfit for the number of people forced into them. Many died at sea while crossing the ocean and most never saw their families again.
The Irish struggled for recognition of their rights and freedoms in America that were guaranteed them by the constitution. This same struggle was fought by African Americans during the civil rights movement decades later.
The Irish faced incredible amounts of racism and some states passed legislation that further deprived them of their rights. In a similar vein African Americans also had states pass laws that were intended to deprive them of their rights.
But while you can see many other similarities in these two narratives there are some substantial differences. The Irish were not engaged in slavery nearly as long as Africans. The Irish received their rights after much less fighting and much earlier than African Americans. African Americans faced a deeper and more intense form of racism that the Irish.
While many Irish were forced to leave others left willingly, even eagerly. But his was because of the famine that threatened to starve all of them. In a way you could still think of this as a forced migration because they did it in order to survive. But either way they had some control over their destiny. Africans didn’t have that. They were forced; there was no choice for them and nothing they were trying to escape from. They would much rather have stayed in their own countries than be forcefully relocated to America.
Both groups come from a sad past with harsh experiences engrained in their history. But they have overcome the trials of the past through persistence, hard work, and hope. There are still trials to be faced in the future but the blueprints to overcome these future trials has already been made. African Americans faced a more difficult journey and because of its length they, more so than the Irish, are facing bigger challenges today.

Tasha Salisbury

5/13/2017 01:16:32 pm

Jonathan, I think that the point that you make about the severity of the fight for rights and the the length of time that those difficulties last is an important one. I have a student now who consistently argues with me when we discuss African American slavery that the Irish had it "just as bad." It's definitely interesting to look at the similarities and differences the two groups faced. I also loved the quote you used by Desmond Tutu, it reminded me of the Ayn Rand quote, "When money ceases to be the tool with which men deal with one another, then men become the tools of men."

Melannie Pew

4/29/2017 12:42:58 pm

Discrimination, sadly, has weaved itself throughout history. Not just in America, but throughout world history there are endless examples of nations rising up and oppressing “lesser” target groups. America, obviously, has not escaped this trend. Timothy Egan did a wonderful job of detailing the discrimination that Irish immigrants experienced in America. The similarities between their experience and the Black American experience are great, but there are also important differences.
The Irish experience, in many ways started very similarly to Africans who were kidnapped from Africa and sold into slavery. The Irish were in a sense “sold” into servitude as indentured servants. They were at the mercy of their masters. The “Irish: The Forgotten White Slaves” article explains and lists examples of just how dehumanizing their experience was as indentured servants. They were beaten, whipped, and coerced like black slaves were. According to the article, Irish women and black male slaves were bred to create a new category of slaves, who held on to their mother’s status as a ‘slave’. Unlike black slaves, however, Irish “slaves” were cheap compared to their black counter parts. As a result, they were more easily replaced and less valuable. Fortunately, there was an end in sight for these Irish immigrants. As indentured servants, they only served for an allotted time, and once they had fulfilled their contract they were freed.
Outside servitude, these Irish immigrants faced a largely Christian and Protestant society as Catholics. The Irish had been despised by Great Britain, because of their Catholic heritage. That discrimination followed and plagued them in America as well. They were driven out of the East and into the promise of a new beginning in the Western frontier. Ultimately, the Irish experience was awful, and shares many elements with the African American experience, however, as white men and women, they were able to obtain civil rights, own land, and improve their station long before many African Americans could. The election of John F. Kennedy proves this point well.
The African American experience is a familiar story, full of horror and shame. Black slaves were also beaten, whipped, and physically brutalized. Discrimination and racism ran so deep in the South that the Civil War was necessary to free America of the “great national sin” of slavery. And even after the emancipation of slavery and the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments, racism defined the Black American experience. The 1870s through the min 1900s are defined by Jim Crow laws, poll taxes, and the horrors committed by members of the Ku Klux Klan. Black Americans were denied their civil liberties for decades, under banners like “separate but equal” and also were subjected to an unforgiving society that placed them low on the social structure. Their fight for civil rights although seemingly similar to the Irish, is fundamentally different. Black Americans were discriminated based on a physical attribute, unlike the Irish immigrants. This difference influences the varied experiences that the Irish and the Black Americans had, and has shaped their own unique past and future.

Jonathan B Wrigley

5/11/2017 01:05:54 pm

I thought it was interesting that the Irish in America faced a great deal of discrimination not just because they were Irish but also because they were Catholic. In an area of America settled by Protestants the Catholics were looked down on because of their religious identity and treated poorly in a country that was supposed to protect religious freedom. In Utah history there are lessons that talk about the discrimination that the Mormons faced in Illinois and Missouri and how their religious rights were being infringed on. But Mormons weren't the only group to face this. The Irish faced in in Ireland and again in the United States. It would be interesting, I think, for students to compare these to groups experience with religious freedom in the United States.

Graham Stromberg

4/29/2017 09:49:43 pm

Egan’s "The Immortal Irishman" showed that there are more similarities than expected when comparing the historic oppression of Irish Americans and African Americans. As a tenth grade world history teacher, I found the imbalanced relationship between England and Ireland to be eerily similar in many ways to the experience of African Americans in the U.S. The following are similarities between the two groups.

Both groups were enslaved by people who were ethnically English (Egan, 10). Both groups were considered “primitive, rude, and savage” by their Anglo Saxon captors (Egan, 4-5). Both groups were also viewed as “subhuman.” For example, Egan notes that “it was not uncommon, as on the cotton plantations of the American South, for a master of the estate to summon from his tenants an Irish girl to his bed (Egan, 12).” Both groups had inferior technology and were relatively uneducated in comparison to their oppressors (see Egan’s description of primitive Irish dwellings (Egan, 13)). Both groups had relatively short life spans compared to their oppressors. Both groups had limited legal rights (e.g. Penal Laws and Black Codes)(Egan, 11).

With regard to legal rights, I found Egan’s description of the Penal Laws to be very similar to many of the restrictions placed on African Americans in the past centuries.

“It was the Penal Laws that ensured a Catholic would never sit on a grand jury, never vote, never raise a voice of protest or be granted citizenship, even as England expanded those rights to her own subjects. In Ireland people were to be forever illiterate, forever poor, forever powerless.” (Egan, 11)

The similarities continued… Both groups migrated en masse to the United States. Both groups were forced to give up their native tongues, religions, and cultures by their oppressors (Egan, 11). Both groups experienced exceptionally high mortality rates on the trans-Atlantic voyage to the U.S. Both groups sent men to fight in the Civil War and every subsequent international conflict involving the United States.

Differences between the groups are relatively miniscule prior to the creation of the United States. However, by the time of the great Irish migration of the 1840s, it is clear that the plight of African Americans was far worse than that of the new Irish immigrants. For example, while the English had gone to extraordinary measures to dehumanize and strip away the rights of the Irish, the Americans were comparatively benevolent. Irish Americans were free, were able to vote, could work their way up the socioeconomic ladder, and would eventually become completely assimilated into mainstream European American culture. On the other hand, African Americans suffered from legal discrimination all the way up until the 1960s.

The past experiences of African Americans and Irish Americans have led to different outcomes for the groups. While Irish Americans have become part of the white majority, African Americans remain a relatively disadvantaged minority group to this day.

Eden Ellingson

5/14/2017 06:48:53 pm

I really enjoyed your comparisons between the two groups through law, and practice. I was struck by the English Penal Laws as well. I had not realized the extent to which the English stripped the Irish of their rights and culture. They reminded me of Jim Crow laws enacted in the Untied States that tried to keep black and white people separate, and continue to oppress formerly enslaved Americans.

Jenni Klein

5/15/2017 01:33:21 pm

I admired and appreciated your comparison between the two. Great research and understanding. I admit, as I read this book I was unaware of all the deep hardships that the Irish went through. Their life was filled with inequality and hopelessness. The Penal Law was cruel and manipulative law that is very similar to the black codes or Jim Crow laws of the South. It is amazing what people in power will do to maintain power and control of those they feel are beneath them.

Eden Ellingson

4/29/2017 09:58:19 pm

As I read the book by Timothy Egan, I was struck by how unique this Irish story was, yet how relatable it is to the United States today. This is exemplified by the robbing of civil rights from whole groups of people. The British strove to take away the Irish ability to practice their religion, language, musical traditions, voting rights and pretty much anything that had contributed to their culture—this was a specific tragedy, but variations of this story have happened to many other immigrant groups. Then the mass migration of many Irish for political reasons, religious freedom, forced migration and most importantly starvation of the Irish, continue to fill out the story of the United States. The Constitutional Rights Foundation states that “between 1845-1855 more than 1.5 million” people left Ireland to come to America. Most came to escape famine, but some were forced to leave and yes, some were sent to be enslaved in the new world.
It reminds me of how often individuals like to try and compare pain. The two blogs posts, “IRISH: THE FORGOTTEN WHITE SLAVES” and “Were the Irish Slaves in America Too?” are comparisons of two tragic experiences—how the Irish came to America and were treated, and the story of enslaved Africans forced migration. There seems to be an unwillingness to allow one group to tell their story without having to diminish the other. I wish we could hold each story in our hand with respect and not have to pit one against the other. It is absolutely true that Africans were forced to come to America, and that their enslavement was hereditary and therefore permanent. There is no arguing with that. That fact is important to any understanding of this country. That incredible suffering should not diminish that other groups struggled and suffered as well. That is the trick used by the elite to keep one at risk group, at the throat of another, at risk group—allowing the privileged to stay above the fray. This happened in story of the book. Meagher, has to contend with the way the Irish feared freeing the slaves. Meagher, “was castigated in the Irish American press, called a fool, a Lincoln lover, a ‘negrophilia,’ among the printable epithets.” (page 256) The main fear was that freed slaves will take the jobs of the Irish. That fear was amplified by the Southern sympathizers trying to manipulate the Irish into fighting for them—or at least keep them from fighting for the Union. The North appealed to the Irish experience with the British and their desire to cast off English oppression. Each group tried to manipulate the Irish to fight for one side or the other.
The value in teaching the Irish story to students for me is that each student deserves to hear as much of the truth as possible. In that truth, they just might find a way to relate to that story, whether it is the story of forced African migration, Irish immigration, and our whole civil rights history, to what is happening today. Hopefully the knowledge that the United States has accepted many cultures, and each has a story that is unique and adds to the sum total of the country will help them understands that we are playing out no less tragic stories today. Immigration is in the news every day; we have irrational and rational fears regarding that immigration. Just as the United States did centuries before and the perceptions we have today will shape all of us, because it all matters.

Eden J Ellingson

4/29/2017 10:01:48 pm

I accidentally posted this to Blog 2 and it was meant for Blog 1 I have posted it there. I have a different post for this Blog. Sorry!

Eden Ellingson

4/29/2017 10:40:59 pm

The major and most glaring similarity for the journey of enslaved Americans and the Irish is the experience of oppression. It is easy to argue that one group is oppressed more or less than another, but it is ingenuous. We can consider one experience without diminishing the other, comparing and contrasting can lead to a deeper understanding of both groups. At the time of Egan’s book the two groups had both experienced pernicious and long term oppression. Both groups had a purposeful stripping of culture, religion, language, as well as organized attempts at dehumanization. Though some Irish may have been enslaved as shown in the blog post, “IRISH: THE FORGOTTEN WHITE SLAVES,” the amount of Irish sold as slaves is disputed by Snopes in the blog post, “Were the Irish Slaves in America Too?” It is safe to say that the actual oppression of the Irish by the British is not in dispute and the oppression also continued in America. While all this is true, there is no comparison to the organization, number of people, institutionalization and relentless forced migration of Africans to the United States. Add to this, the hereditary nature of enslaved Africans found in the new world, and their oppression is without parallel. Most Irish decided to immigrate to the United States. Even if they were compelled by hunger, oppression and hopelessness, the choice was still theirs.
Teaching this in the classroom could be very interesting, and would definitely have to be done with care, but how interesting would it be to have an organized discussion of the experiences of immigrant groups. Why they left their country of origin? Was it voluntary? Why they chose the United States, or rather, did they have a choice? A Socratic seminar with quotes, statements and questions would be fascinating. Then they could do their own analysis at the end.
It is interesting to note that Frederick Douglass had his own comparison of his experience with Irish in Ireland and then in the United States. In Egan’s book Douglass speaks of Ireland fondly, “One of the most pleasing features of my visit (to Ireland) has been the total absence of all manifestations of prejudice against me on account of my color.” This was contrasted when he noticed in America in the 1850s, that the Irish had come to “hate and despise the Negro. They are taught that he eats the bread that belongs to them.” (p. 166-167) He used the words “They are taught.” That would also be an engaging way to start a lesson. Use the quote and then ask—What are we taught? Is it always true or helpful? How can we check our own personal prejudices?

Ryan Fisher

5/7/2017 05:16:17 pm

It is interesting that Douglass made an appearance in not one but two of the books we have read. His influence in the 1800's was very widespread and I found it interesting that he was interested in not only the African American plight, but was seeking understanding of other groups as well.
I do like your take on not needing to compare who was more oppressed than who. When we take that stance it tends to create a divide in the Civil Rights story that exist. Civil Rights is universal and can be understood without taking from one story to enhance the story of another.

Graham Stromberg

5/13/2017 02:23:16 pm

I love the idea for a lesson starter at the end of your essay. When receiving feedback regarding my teaching practices, I have been told that I need to increase the level of intellectual rigor in my classes. For example, I often focus too much time on content knowledge and not enough time on helping students develop critical thinking skills. You have provided a great idea to pique student interest right from the beginning of class time.

Lori Robinson

4/29/2017 11:14:31 pm

Irish Americans and Black Americans
Similarities and differences exist between the history of Irish Americans and Black Americans. Nonetheless, is it even fair to compare the two? In the broad sense of working toward Civil Rights, perhaps. It is undeniable that both underwent unique experiences fraught with discrimination and hardship. Perhaps in a comparison of their similarities and differences, we can in some small way begin to understand how the fight for Civil Rights is not just the fight of one particular people. Perhaps we can acquire a greater understanding of how political forces work for or against a group of people with the understanding that we can work within our societies for the greater freedom of all.
Perhaps one of the most obvious similarities is that both peoples experienced degradation as a race. Stephen Oates provided a good look at what people of the day—both Northern and Southern—believed about Black Americans. People of the South did not believe they were intelligent enough to take care of themselves. Even Lincoln and most Northerners viewed them as a lesser race of people. The English did the same to the Irish by robbing them by dispossessing them of their landholdings and turning them into paupers in their own nation who were despised by the people of Britain.
Black Americans who were held as slaves could own no property of their own, being property themselves. Similarly, Irish had been dispossessed of their property for the most part, and most were tenement farmers on lands their families had owned for generations. Slave codes outlawed reading and writing for the slaves. They could not meet in large groups or own weapons. The masses of poor Irish did not have access to education in Ireland. “In Ireland, people were to be forever illiterate, forever poor, forever powerless” (Egan 11).
In contrast, once in the United States, enslaved Blacks were viewed as assets in the South where their labor was needed by an economy that depended on cotton. In the North, Irish were despised as outsiders by the Know-Nothing’s and the Nationalists who actively engaged in activities to drive them out of the United States. This will be discussed further in the next paragraph. Most Irish did not want to compete with slave labor in the South and knew that they would not be able to find many jobs there. However, upon reading more, I found that, in fact, the poor Irish were sought after as day laborers in Louisiana where they could work at dangerous jobs like building canals and draining the swamps—jobs where it was likely for disease to strike and death to follow. It was considered better to lose an Irish person and thus only lose the wages you had paid for his labor than to lose a slave and the entire investment that the slave was worth (Young, Patrick. “The Irish Tigers from Louisiana.” https://longislandwins.com/news/national/the-irish-tigers-from-louisiana-2/). I think that this point is essential because the more information we have, the more we can see that usually a situation is not simply “this way” or “that way.”
Free Black Americans and Irish in the North faced discrimination. Irish faced harassment by Nationalists and the Know-Nothing party who did not want these new immigrants to occupy what the nationalists considered to be “their” homeland. The Know-Nothings considered the Irish to be “ . . . scum unloaded on American wharves” (Egan 141). The Nativists burned churches, rioted, burned books, Catholics, “ . . . especially the Irish” (142). Freedmen in both the North and the South, led an existence fraught with discrimination ”. . . repressive laws helped create the conditions for a vast underclass that for most free blacks meant living along a very thin line between slavery and freedom, debt and dependency, poverty and pride” (Gates, Henry Louis. “Free Blacks Lived in the North, Right.” http://www.pbs.org/wnet/african-americans-many-rivers-to-cross/history/free-blacks-lived-in-the-north-right/). I would argue that this quote, which Gates applies to freedmen living in the South would also apply to those in the North who still faced discrimination and fear of being captured and resold into slavery. Both groups of people—Irish and free Black Americans—faced discrimination. It hardly needs to be said that the freedom denied to enslaved Black Americans does not constitute mere “discrimination.”
Furthermore, both groups were denied participation in government—the Irish in Ireland and the African Americans in the United States. The majority of Ireland’s poor could not ever expect to be represented in Parliament. Even though they made up a large part of the population, they only had about 15 percent representation in Parliament. Politics were rigged to be against them. They would not be able to pa

Lori Robinson

4/29/2017 11:16:01 pm

Politics were rigged to be against them. They would not be able to pass any legislation that the English majority of Parliament did not support. (Egan) Although both the United States and Great Britain claimed to be respecters of “The Rule of Law,” it did not include Irish in Ireland or Black Americans in the United States. And here is an exception—some Irish were allowed to vote in Ireland, but this amount fell with the Act of Union which required ownership of property and dropped the number of eligible voters in Waterford from to 700 of a population of 28,000 people. (Egan 21). As one reads about the trials of Meagher, John Mitchell, and Smith O’Brien, the discrimination within the courts mocks the rule of law even further—the juries were packed with Protestants who would be likely to find the defendants guilty. This is similar to laws forbidding Black Americans from voting or participating in a trial as a witness or on a jury in order to turn the law from their favor.
One more undeniable difference between Black Americans and the Irish is that enslaved Black Americans were considered property, and unless freed either by manumission or purchase of themselves, had no freedoms or choices at all. They were denied the right to pursue any hopes or dreams and their very lives were dictated by the slave owners. Whether a house servant or field hand, they had little to no say in their day-to-day lives. Many of the Irish in Ireland seemed to live in a similarly hopeless situation. Unfortunately, their English “master” did not see fit to feed them and continued to export grain during the Great Famine, grain that could have saved the one million Irish who perished from starvation. I am sure that, although slavery was despicable, not many slave masters in the South would allow a slave who represented a monetary investment to simply die for no reason. At least not on this great of a scale. Fortunately for Meagher, his grandfather was able to establish a successful cod-shipping business and then expand it into his own fleet of ships. However, this did necessitate travel outside of Ireland, as no such opportunity existed there. With the Meagher’s prosperity, came a variety of privileges not available to the mainstream Irish-- an element of respect within the community, education, security, and the ability to pursue political changes.
Lastly, Meagher’s father attempted to pursue change through participation in government; Meagher himself, through writing, speech, and the union of Irishmen. So, too, did men and women like Nat Turner, Frederick Douglass and Sojourner Truth work for abolition of slavery within the United States. At times with words and at times with the understanding of the necessity of violence.
The similarities and differences faced by Black Americans and Irish Americans helped to shape their attitudes and beliefs about freedom and their role in society. Irish were quick to organize and participate in the societies around them, and, arguably had an easier time assimilating into society because of their race. Meagher, for example, fought a great many battles with the 69th Irish Regiment during the Civil War and then went on to become the governor of Montana Territory. After the Civil War, African Americans also were eager to become involved in their society. However, after the end of the Reconstruction Era, they would continue to battle for acceptance in a society that continued to perpetuate white superiority in the institutions and culture of the South. Those residual attitudes still encumber Black Americans today, although perhaps to a different extent in different parts of the country. That racial relations have become tense in our country due to issues with the police and criminal justice system illustrates that we still must come to terms with problems surrounding the past degradation of millions of people.
In many cases, the similarities and differences of Black Americans and the Irish seem intertwined. It is almost as if they are in different time continuums reaching for the same ultimate goal—to live freely according to one’s own conscience. And this is the tie that binds us all together—a desire to live our lives freely and feel whole as individuals and safe in society. While a binding tie it is also a wedge when our desires come into conflict. This is one of the great quests of those who inhabit the United States today-- to find a way to fulfill the desire for freedom without resorting to violence or the denial of individual rights.

Christopher Jones

5/9/2017 01:56:34 pm

Lori, I liked the part at the end about participation in politics, comparing Meagher and his father, and comparing Truth and Douglass. I haven't really thought about it that way, as far as what I teach my students. Recognizing that there are, in a way, two different groups to civil rights. MLK, who led the protests which prompted legislation, and then those African Americans who actually took the opportunity to participate in politics directly, becoming representatives. I do not discuss African American political figures, really at all, in my class, but I think you have inspired me to do so.

Jenni Klein

4/30/2017 08:42:40 pm

In all honesty, I was unaware of the depth of the Irish struggles until reading the extra reading this week. The article Irish: The Forgotten White Slaves describes how the English sent 30,000 Irish to the Caribbean to be in slavery. Similar to the people of Africa, Irish were conquered, ripped of their culture and homes, and many sold into slavery. Irish were treated with brutality, murdered, and many even sold. Once the Irish immigrated to America their life wasn’t much better than slaves. They had horrific living conditions, worked ridiculous hour for little pay, and were persecuted for their background. Meagher describes life in the 5 corners as “Shanties in which pigs and Patricks lie down together.” (pg. 133)

The Irish and Black Americans share a common thread of slavery, hatred, inequality, and the fight for civil rights. Each were taken from their homeland by force (in one way or another) and were thrown into a life where they were forced to support and sustain people that hated them. They built this country with their sweat and tears and then watched as others take the credit.
One of the greatest traits of these people is that they never forgot their heritage. They were oppressed, but still held to their beliefs, their culture, and their religion. They used it as a strength to overcome hardships. Their past was horrifying, but instead of sadness they used it to have hope for their future. Irish continually fought for equality in Ireland and then again in America. Black Americans fought bravely in wars, suffered oppression, and waited until the day when they would have their chance to have equal civil rights as the rest of the world. While their fight for civil rights would be longer and would take sacrifice of many they too would receive the civil liberties they deserve. And, eventually- like the Irish- would even have a Black American President.

Gina Dansie

5/1/2017 08:41:55 am

I admit that I too, hadn't realized the scope of the discrimination the Irish faced until the readings for this assignment. It started to make me wonder why the Irish experience isn't highlighted like the Black Americans. I wonder if part of it is because of our Anglo American heritage as a country and not wanting to bring added attention to it. Could it also be that the Irish were able to assimilate much more quickly and "blend in" socially more easily than the Black Americans, thus making their struggle shorter in time?

Melannie Pew

5/10/2017 03:10:56 pm

Jenni and Gina, I too found this history new. I knew very little of the Irish struggle inside and outside America. I am currently teach about The Civil War, and have been discussing the history of slavery a bit. I included some info about these Irish immigrants and indentured servants. While discussing, I had a student ask why it is that there is so much more attention given to the struggles Black Americans experienced. I was pleased with he question and it brought about a great discussion about the history of Civil Rights, and I was able to expound on the Irish experience. The class was intrigued and genuinely surprised by this forgotten history. I was able to discuss what Gina brought up, about how the although the Irish did experience some truly terrible things, their assimilation into America was significantly easier than the black Americans. I am interested in using all this new material next year in class, and hopefully enrich the learning experience.

Eden Ellingson

5/14/2017 07:12:56 pm

I was also unaware of the details of the Irish struggle. I am disappointed that it didn't come up in my education, or my own readings of history. I really liked how you also pointed out that they did not forget their heritage, and they used that to become stronger people. I think this would be interesting to talk about in class. What is heritage, and culture? Does it make you stronger? What would you fight to keep?

Kim Littler

5/2/2017 07:08:58 am

When discussing the issue of slavery in America in attempts to advocate for Black civil rights, in any conversation with a racist (blatant or otherwise), one will invariably hear the phrase “well, actually, Americans had more white slaves than black slaves…but you don’t see people wearing shirts that say ‘Irish Lives Matter.’” Oddly enough, as much as it pains me to say this, the racists are kind of right. Pride in Irish ancestry, real or perceived, is only celebrated once a year – and usually as a means to drink green beer and party; the struggles of the Irish or Irish-Americans are relegated to the Potato Famine, memorialized in New York City. However, ask most teachers and students about the struggles of Black Americans, and you will be bombarded with a plethora of historical trivia. So, do we really care less about the treatment of Irish slaves than we do of Black slaves? Are we practicing “reverse racism?” Are the racists right?

Short answer: no. Long answer: it is perhaps easier to care about the struggles of Black slaves because their plights have been more apparently brutal and demoralizing. It is therefore essential to examine the similarities and differences in the experiences of Irish Americans and Black Americans.

Certainly the attitudes of White Anglo-Saxon Protestants (WASPs) towards the Irish and Black Americans were similar. Egan describes the Irish as being portrayed by the British as “mongrels, incapable of caring for themselves, a nation of drunks” (p 26). Certainly men like George Fitzhugh, a notable slave apologist of the ante-bellum era would describe Black slaves in much the same manner. The two groups had been presented as similarly racists caricatures by cartoonists and satirists. And of course, they both suffered from similar imbalances of power.

However, that is where most similarities end. Historians like Liam Hogan present the argument that Irish indentured servitude was an altogether different experience than Black chattel slavery. In systems of indentured servitude, there was essentially an expiration date on their imprisonment. Irish slaves could be freed, could appeal to courts in cases of mistreatment, and their status as slaves was not necessarily perpetual or hereditary. However, the system of chattel slavery experienced by Black Americans, “was perpetual… was hereditary… was designated by ‘race’...” and encouraged the abuse or even murder of slaves by their owners (Hogan). These two systems of servitude and slavery were worlds apart, and the experiences of those in the position of servitude were vastly different.

That is, of course, not to say that Irish slavery was good or acceptable, in comparison to Black slavery. Both were corrupt systems that sought to dehumanize their victims. However, understanding of these differences does account for what the racists do not – that systematic oppression of Black Americans began in a much harsher manner than that of Irish Americans. Therefore many average citizens are more aware of the former system than the latter.

Tasha Salisbury

5/13/2017 01:25:40 pm

Kim, I love that you point out that Irish heritage really only gets celebrated once a year and not in a very serious way. The way that you compare the BLM movement to Irish struggles is also great. In a controlled classroom setting, this would be an interesting thing to discuss!

Graham Stromberg

5/13/2017 02:14:40 pm

Kim,
I thoroughly enjoyed reading your essay. I was particularly impressed with the specific examples you offered regarding similarities between the two groups. For example, the part on pg. 26 where Egan describes the British view of the Irish: that the Irish were "incapable of caring for themselves." In world history, there is a pattern where technologically advanced groups tend to subjugate technologically inferior groups (those viewed as being unable to care for themselves). Usually the subjugation or annihilation of the less technologically sophisticated groups is carried out in order for the dominating group to acquire resources and land.
Ironically, there are many instances in which the dominating group shares its technological advances and consequently lifts the standard of living for the oppressed group. With my attempts to tie this section into my World History classes, I thought of some other similar situations in history.
Historical examples of subjugation and annihilation include, English subjugation of the Irish; Roman subjugation of the Germanic tribes of northern Europe, Japanese subjugation of the Ainu, Chinese subjugation of Tibetans, Bantu subjugation of the Khoisan, Maori subjugation of the Moriori, and Cherokee subjugation of the Mound Builders.

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